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Paul Byrd Can Shove It

Someone seems to be taking this harder than most everyone else. And I quote from the Beacon Journal:

Byrd didn't feel any better minutes later when he checked out the Mariners' bench.

``It's hard to take when you see their guys laughing in the dugout,'' Byrd said. ``They looked like they'd gotten away with something. And I think they did.''

The only thing the Mariners got away with was not losing a game that never should've been played in the first place. You, meanwhile, were one strike from getting away with a bullshit win you didn't deserve. I understand the competitive desire to win at all times no matter the circumstances, but at some point on days like yesterday you need to recognize that you're not playing baseball anymore, shake hands with the opponent, and move on to the next game with no hard feelings.

Maybe Byrd doesn't realize that the weather was the only reason his team was ahead. Do you think Adrian Beltre makes three errors in normal conditions? Do you think Ho Ramirez throws 98 pitches in four innings and walks six guys if he isn't staring into a whiteout? Do you think any of those like half-dozen long Mariner fly balls stay in the park if they aren't being pushed to the ground by a metric ton of falling sky? Paul Byrd has the right to be annoyed - I think we're all pretty ticked, really - but he has no right to complain, because the entire course of the game was shaped by the weather, and that's not how baseball is meant to be played. Baseball's a clear weather sport, and since there wasn't any clear weather in Cleveland yesterday afternoon, there shouldn't have been any baseball.

Some people will argue that the Indians were adjusting to the snowfall just fine, and that therefore the Mariners don't have a leg to stand on, but then, so what? For one thing, Cleveland's used to cold weather, and for another, the Mariners had never practiced in snow before because baseball isn't supposed to be played in it. If I'm running in a track meet against five other guys, and we all suddenly get bit by cobras, and everyone falls down and starts convulsing and I slowly manage to crawl my way to the finish line first, that doesn't make me the best runner - it makes me a guy who was best able to withstand being bit by a cobra. So congratulations to the Indians on being a better snow baseball team than the Mariners. Unfortunately for them, snow baseball games don't count in regular baseball game standings, but if they want to celebrate their snow baseball championship, well, they've got a free Saturday to throw one hell of a party.

You'd think Paul Byrd would've known that something was wrong when he saw that Paul Byrd had thrown 4.2 no-hit innings. Conditions were unplayable, and when I say "unplayable" I don't mean that it was physically impossible to plow through a few innings; I mean it was physically impossible to carry on a normal game. And that's what it comes down to. Byrd may think it was cheap of Hargrove to stall the way he did with one strike to go, but then if Hargrove hadn't stalled, it would've been cheap for Byrd to pick up the W by throwing one more strike, so as far as I'm concerned it all balances out. It's in everybody's best interests that they forget yesterday ever happened, and the sooner Byrd can let it go, the better off he'll be.

(Oh, and the laughing? That's what happens when you have a few players who've never seen it snow before in their lives. You know why there are a few players who've never seen it snow before in their lives? Because you DON'T PLAY BASEBALL IN THE SNOW.)

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The cobra paragraph
Caused uncontrollable laughter on my end. Nice work, Jeff.

by Graham on Apr 7, 2007 11:29 AM PDT   0 recs

Amen to that
Paul Byrd is a friggin' douchebag.  Must be still bitter about Mariners handing him his ass last year.

by ThundaPC on Apr 7, 2007 11:32 AM PDT   0 recs

Byrd's trying to make it personal
Which bothers me.

Remember when he was with the Angels a couple years ago? And the M's donated a bunch of signed balls and other memorabilia for an auction for his charity?

He doesn't have to go making it a thing that the team was laughing. They weren't. They weren't laughing at the fact that Cleveland was denied a victory. Nor were they laughing at the fact that he missed out on a no-no by one strike. It was because the circumstances surrounding everything were ridiculous.

no signature necessary

by Katal LM on Apr 7, 2007 11:46 AM PDT   0 recs

Truthfully if I was in the dugout
there would be a piece of me that was saying, "Wow we just got lucky here".  I agree with everybody else's points though.

by Edgar for Pres on Apr 7, 2007 12:03 PM PDT   0 recs

Technically they did get lucky.
But only because they were saved from something ridiculous that never should have happened anyway.

by Jeff on Apr 7, 2007 12:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

"Wow we just got lucky here"
Yeah - there's a part that feels that way.  But it's the same kind of "lucky" feeling you get when you're on a 2-lane highway, and suddenly find yourself almost face-to-face with a driver headed the other direction who's passing another car in a blind spot.

When he suddenly dives back onto his side of the road, you feel "lucky", but it's "luck" you really shouldn't have needed.

by Steve Nelson on Apr 7, 2007 12:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Great work Mike!
This was definetly Hargrove's best move as Mariner's manager.

by djhatesthtejews on Apr 7, 2007 12:28 PM PDT   0 recs

M's did get lucky
but that's what happens over the course of the season.  And if Paul Byrd is hung up on it... good.  Maybe it'll piss him off enough that he'll implode in his next start.

And hopefully the Mike Hargrove tracking spreadsheet will chalk one up to the Grover.  I didn't see it, but comments suggest he saved the Mariners from taking a loss there.

by johnbai on Apr 7, 2007 1:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Anyone else surprised no one from
Let's Go Tribe has come over here? Looking over there they generally seem to share Byrd's sentiments, re: the postponement.
Hot potato is an entirely different game when you're starving

by Mariner John on Apr 7, 2007 2:31 PM PDT   0 recs

Heh and how they're commenting on this article
"Has anyone seen the writeup on the Mariners page? Really ridiculous."

"I am not sure if we were watching the same thing, but then I felt better when I realized the Mariners suck and Grover is their manager."

"That cobra one barely even makes sense."

Oh SNAP! He says the Mariners suck! We just got BURNED!

No sir, I don't like it. ~Mr.Horse

by Goose on Apr 7, 2007 3:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So instead
Of looking at Victor Martinez hitting the DL and going 'gee, maybe that was a function of the conditions, playing more might not be a great idea if we want to keep players on both sides healthy' they get irritated and point out that we suck?

Well, yes, we do suck. So why are they getting angry they were screwed out of a win when the Tribe can beat us normally anyway?

by Graham on Apr 7, 2007 3:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

They key being "barely".
"Barely" implies that it makes at least a shred or two of sense. I consider it a compliment.

by Jeff on Apr 7, 2007 3:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure how
An individual point can make differing degrees of sense. Surely it's a binary sense-nonsense type thing?

by Graham on Apr 7, 2007 3:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't really know.
I just felt like talking about cobras.

by Jeff on Apr 7, 2007 3:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey, I'm always up for
An imaginary cobra anecdote or two.

by Graham on Apr 7, 2007 3:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

They're calling
Jeff's comments ridiculous now. Tee-hee.

I sort of understand how they feel, but I know damn well that if the tables were reversed I'd still have wanted that game erased (although before first pitch would have been preferable).

by Graham on Apr 7, 2007 3:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

HOORAY for 2007 Snow Baseball MVP Paul Byrd!
What a whiner.  He's just pissed because that's far and away the best performance he's ever had.

by Gomez on Apr 7, 2007 3:03 PM PDT   0 recs

If you watched the game
5 balls that came off the M's bats were GONE off the bat. And then they came back down at the warning track. Seriously, I learned what it was like to be Dave Niehaus for 5 innings.

Ibanez, Lopez, Beltre, Vidro!?, Sexson all hit the ball well enough to leave the yard under normal conditions, except the snow was so heavy the flyballs just died out there.

by Graham on Apr 7, 2007 3:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And that's what it took
for him to pitch so well.  I bet Washburn wishes the sky would snow on his opponent's flyballs.

Ditto Spiroid.  He should quit whining for run support and ask for some snow support from god.

by Gomez on Apr 7, 2007 3:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly, but yeah don't hear us bitching and
moaning about that right off the bat. Why? BECAUSE WE KNEW IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE FREAKING BLIZZARD!
No sir, I don't like it. ~Mr.Horse

by Goose on Apr 7, 2007 3:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Byrd just got blue-balled
So close to a cheap, worthless no-hitter that he was sure of getting after walking 3 straight on 16 pitches. And then:

Dave1: Lopez at 1-2 and... I heard the bat, sounds like a hit but with the snow...
Dave2: Can't see it really but there's some movement in left-center field...
Dave1: One run in and we still can't pick up the ball out there...
Dave 2: Second run scores and one of the outfielders is running in with what looks like the head of a snowman in his glove
Dave1: Jojima is half way to home and here comes the snowman's head rolling in toward the shortstop...
Dave2: The relay is just a little slow, and Lopez is in a rundown between home and 3rd...
Dave1: Byrd covers home and Lopez lunges head first, right into the snow drift in front of the plate... He's safe! It's a tie game! Extra innings!

JPWood

by JPWood on Apr 7, 2007 3:05 PM PDT   0 recs

And here's the throw to the plate...
Oh, but the runner has had time to build a snow fort around the plate and the throw is blocked by the wall! The runner is safe! The runner is stuffing snow into Victor Martinez shorts! My oh my, what the fuck is wrong with these people that the gam is still going?

by Mere Tantalisers on Apr 8, 2007 6:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh Paul,
you look so cold and hungry.  How about a nice hot dish of STFU?
Memories Only 'R Us

by Paytheline on Apr 7, 2007 3:18 PM PDT   0 recs

I think he just needs a cup.
No sir, I don't like it. ~Mr.Horse

by Goose on Apr 7, 2007 3:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Paul Byrd
Instead of bitching to the media, you should take a page from another Bird, Mark Fidrych, bend over and talk to your balls.

by Gomez on Apr 7, 2007 3:19 PM PDT   0 recs

Couple things
First, "Do you think Ho Ramirez throws 98 pitches in four innings and walks six guys if he isn't staring into a whiteout?"... actually I do, from what I know of HoRam.

Second, I thought they made a rule change this year that made it so that if the game was called in the 5th inning, the game would be restarted from that time in the game at a later date. It wouldn't be redone from start, and it wouldn't be counted as a win.

Right?

Die Angels Die!
Visting A's fan.

by Zonis on Apr 7, 2007 4:37 PM PDT   0 recs

wrong
new rule only applies to tie games after 5 innings.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 7, 2007 4:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Come to think of it
yeah, you're probably right on Ho.

by Jeff on Apr 7, 2007 4:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ramirez BB/G
3.6 last year.

by Graham on Apr 7, 2007 4:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The pitch count is probably there
though with a couple more innings and half the walks.  I'm not deluded enough to think HoRam pitches a gem, but he doesn't suck this bad in more normalized conditions.

by Gomez on Apr 7, 2007 5:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

98 pitches in 4 innings with 6 BBs aside...
Take away the 3 Beltre errors - which nobody can argue against being a product of the snow - and it's still tied at 0 in the 5th.
We want the funk! Give up the funk!

by thejew4u on Apr 7, 2007 10:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Did anyone save the game
on MLB.tv from yesterday?

I want to see it but its been pulled

Shop smart......Shop s-mart...... YOU GOT THAT!!!!

by Scruffy Lefty on Apr 7, 2007 4:51 PM PDT   0 recs

I doubt anyone did.
But you didn't miss much, unless you like white things.

by Jeff on Apr 7, 2007 4:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

embarassing
Jeff, my man.  This is ... well, it's not your finest moment.  I'd say you've embarassed yourself, but I know the ranting homer nonsense is playing well with your readership.  I've already covered, in the course of smackingn down another obnoxious M's fan, why this shafting of the Indians is of questionable legitimacy at best.

First and foremost, I'd like to note that in general, you and several of your readers are being whiny little bitches about this whole thing.  That would be okay, except that you're the ones lucked out here.  By which I mean to suggest, we Indians fans are the ones who are entitled to act like whiny little bitches here, not you.

Paul Byrd hurt your feelings?  Who cares?  You escaped a loss!  Get out of jail free!

The Mariners were celebrating, and they have a right to be.  Byrd is pissed, and he has a right to be pissed.  Both reactions are only natural.  Byrd did not accuse the players of wrongdoing, nor would I.  He said they looked like they got away with something.  Well, they did.  They got away with having their asses handed to them for half a game before it got wiped off the books.  What exactly is wrong about saying that?  It's not like they did it on purpose -- the players, that is.

There is not one person here who can claim that he himself -- or any Mariners starter -- would react any differently.  Anybody would be pissed.  And he basically admitted that he was pissed at himself for not getting through it faster.

Second, whining about the weather just doesn't make sense.  Seriously, Jeff, nobody likes the cold -- is Seattle balmy and I don't know about it? -- and nobody practices in the snow.

Four Indians got hits yesterday.  Michaels (two singles) is from Florida.  Peralta (two-run double) is Dominican.  Barfield (single, BB) is from Venezuela, and had never seen snow before being traded to the Indians a few months ago.  So that leaves Sizemore, who's from Seattle -- can a 24-year-old from Seattle really have a climate advantage over a team that plays in Seattle?

I would compare to the hometowns of the Mariners who got hits, if there were any.  So I will merely note that Beltre is in his third year as a Mariner while Marte notably struggled to adjust to cold temparatures last April.  Both Beltre and Marte are Dominican, but you didn't see Marte making three errors.  So I fail to see where these Indians had any advantage over the Mariners due to climate.  The whole idea is possibly the dumbest thing ever to appear in an SBN blog.

I'll give your readers the answer they can't come up with themselves:  Byrd is a flyball pitcher.  If the wind was doing what you say it was doing -- debatable, but possible -- then maybe it would give Byrd an advantage -- debatable, but possible.  But as I said earlier, weather is often a factor, and one that both teams have to deal with.

So really, the only constant we have to work with here is that the Mariners suck.

To us:  Better luck next time with the game.
To you:  Better luck next time with your capacity for abstract thought.

by Jay on Apr 7, 2007 5:06 PM PDT   0 recs

Thank you for that.
I appreciate it.

by Jeff on Apr 7, 2007 5:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

my pleasure
Anything to drive traffic.

by Jay on Apr 7, 2007 5:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

To be fair
Marte had one ball hit to him all night, and that was by Jose Vidro (i.e., the ball could have evolved into a semi-sentient life form, got up, and walked to the bag before Vidro made it halfway to first).

by Fett42 on Apr 7, 2007 5:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

C'mon, RevHalofan
This was too obvious. You're going to have to do a better job of disguising yourself next time.

by JLC on Apr 7, 2007 5:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nah, he didn't make any references to coffee
or Nirvana or Bigfoot when trying to insult us. Can't be The Rev.
No sir, I don't like it. ~Mr.Horse

by Goose on Apr 7, 2007 5:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, but
The faulty logic, the condescension, the feeling of superiority, and the arrogance? They're all there.

Hmmmm, do you think he might be related to The Rev?

by JLC on Apr 7, 2007 5:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

well ...
The faulty logic ... nobody has pointed out any.

I think condescendion is when you act like someone is stupid.  I didn't do that, I just said you wrote some very stupid things.

The feeling of superiority ... right here.

As for the arrogance, check out the season previews from ESPN, SI, Hardball Times, Baseball Prospectus ...

by Jay on Apr 7, 2007 5:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

see ..
I can't even spell condescension right.

by Jay on Apr 7, 2007 5:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Heh.
Is that why you posted a link to a comment thread where you PWNEDZ0RED a "Mariner fan"?

In case you were wondering, no one here read your 20 page long thesis of responding to a troll. I don't personally know that, but I think it's a safe assumption.

by JLC on Apr 8, 2007 10:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I have to say
If you were looking for a way to insult me, you did a good job.  You basically said I could be mistaken for an Angels fan, which = I don't know anything about baseball at all.

Ooh, look at the monkey!  Exciting!

by Jay on Apr 7, 2007 5:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah he's right.
Come on Noname, that's going to far.
No sir, I don't like it. ~Mr.Horse

by Goose on Apr 7, 2007 5:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Y'all are ignoring
the only thing that really matters. Whether or not Cleveland's scoring and Seattle's inability to score was based on weather is irrelevant. All that is relevant is this: When Jose Lopez was up with two outs in the fifth, the game was not legitimately playable. Therefore, calling it off was the right thing to do. Asking Jose Lopez to continue batting in those conditions would have been absurd. It is patently untrue that the Mariners only pulled this move when it seemed that they would lose; when he walked, Johjima told the umpire he couldn't see the ball. What's more, Jose Lopez fouled off a pitch with two strikes in that at-bat (according to gameday). If Hargrove had really been waiting until his batter was down to his last strike, he would have come out a pitch earlier.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 7, 2007 5:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

According to the umpire
Lopez told the umpire he couldn't see earlier, and the umpire told him "one more pitch." He still couldn't see, and that's when they stopped and called the game.

by Fett42 on Apr 7, 2007 5:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hi, Jay
That rant and the other rant you link were rather obnoxious, but hey, aren't we all?  Welcome!

That game shouldn't have even been started in the first place, and the conditions varied over the course of the game.  The fact is, whether or not the conditions were more playable during the rest of the game, that they turned for the worse during those final 3 ABs, that the game should have been stopped, and it was.

We can debate the merits of absolving Beltre for his 3 errors and the Mariners lineup for their inability to hit yesterday, or the Indians' advantage of having lived and practiced in this cold weather while Seattle had to fly in and play in it cold turkey, or that the Indians were able to score four easy runs on a team that as a result couldn't get their footing or balance in conditions that the Indians were more prepared for, or Paul Byrd having a right to bicker about not getting a snow-aided no hitter despite conditions that clearly turned unfair for his opposition in the top 5th... but honestly, this game should not have been played in these conditions, period, and it took one of our hitters going, "LOOK, I CAN'T SEE IN THIS SHIT," and Hargrove coming out and basically staging a sit-in to get the umps to do what they should've done 4.2 innings and another hour before.

You can even argue that the Indians, who basically demanded the game be played, demanded the game go on not because it was opening day or for the fans, but because, given the conditions, they knew they had an absurd advantage over the visiting team.

However, your dismissive 'the Mariners suck' crack pretty much crossed the line of what had otherwise been a spirited effort to establish a reasoned debate, whether or not that point is imperatively true, and I must now ask you to go bite a cock.

Again, WELCOME!

by Gomez on Apr 7, 2007 5:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

thanks
I appreciate the generous reception.  I would however argue that stating that the Mariners suck actually qualifies a serious analytical comment in this case.

The Indians practice in Florida.  The weather advantage thing, you should drop it.  It's sad.

by Jay on Apr 7, 2007 5:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Seems to me
Their first series was played in Chicago, which was pretty darn frigid.

by Fett42 on Apr 7, 2007 5:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

2006 records:
Mariners:78-84
Indians:78-84

Just saying.

No sir, I don't like it. ~Mr.Horse

by Goose on Apr 7, 2007 5:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How silly of you
to use facts and statistics in a "your team sucks" debate.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 7, 2007 5:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

everyone knows you shouldn't use stats
to make a point only to embellish a point. God!

by Matthew on Apr 7, 2007 5:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wow
This is the sort of snark you see on politics blogs.

by Gomez on Apr 7, 2007 5:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The weather thing is...
Truly stupid, IMO.

I think Jay's comment has been the most level-headed I've seen on the game.

Yet, I still don't like the M's acting like little kids about it, while the Indians went out and did business. And I tend to use the M's as a punching bag more because A) Hargrove has been more of a wuss than Wedge, B) the Mariners have been losing more than the Indians the last three years and C) the M's have been emotionally volatile for a long time.

Just on a side note, I think JOlderdude at SportSpot mentioned it, but pre-gametime, the game is usually decided by the home team.

Detect-O-Vision

Favor the Bold

by IcebreakerX on Apr 7, 2007 5:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well,
Slightly level-headed.

The Mariners only slightly suck. About 4/5ths of the rotation, 1/9th of the starting lineup, and Willie.

Detect-O-Vision

Favor the Bold

by IcebreakerX on Apr 7, 2007 5:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

fair enough
Maybe I'll do a more thorough analysis of how much (or little) the M's suck later in the series (if there is one).

About the M's reaction, the Indians have a pretty professional, level-headed clubhouse -- they actually do significant psych profiling of acquisitions -- and they have a history of shipping off players who are considered immature (Phillips, Bradley).

That said, while I think the Indians wouldn't have been high-fiving and yukking it up, I'm not at all sure of that.  It was, all things considered, a pretty absurd situation.

by Jay on Apr 7, 2007 5:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well,
Our team has been been a snowball (ha!) of losership towards August, and its showed the last few years.

To the point where Ichiro goes yapping about it (Ichiro of all people!), the Seattle PI reports on it wrong, and the Seattle Times has to go out to fix it.

Detect-O-Vision

Favor the Bold

by IcebreakerX on Apr 7, 2007 5:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And actually...
Detect-o-Vision reported it first, the PI plagiarized it and the writer got shipped out.
Detect-O-Vision

Favor the Bold

by IcebreakerX on Apr 7, 2007 5:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah
the sucky Mariners won 78 games last year, as opposed to the powerhouse Indians who won 78 games last year.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 7, 2007 6:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not saying snow favours
The Indians as a team.

If favours fly ball pitchers at the expense of ground ball pitchers. The Indians had a (crappy) fly ball pitcher. We had a (crappy) groundballer.

This isn't hard, folks.

by Graham on Apr 8, 2007 1:13 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Christ on a handbag.
Are all Indians fans as bizarrely incapable of grasping a simple point as you?

by Graham on Apr 8, 2007 1:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

well Graham
I can assure you, if there were a standardized test for "grasping a simple point," I think I'd get at least an average score.

I agree that your point is simple.  It is, in fact, simplistic.

Your problem is that you can't tell the difference between a "good point" and a "point that makes you feel good."

Eighteen players contended with the weather.  One of them made three errors, the other 17 made zero errors.  That's a good point, and every bit as simple as your point.

The only difference is, you won't like it.

As for Indians fans, I can assure you, M's fans have no standing to criticize anything about them.

by Jay on Apr 8, 2007 7:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: well Graham
Weather shouldn't have been an issue in the first place.

If you play a game in the rain, and one guy throws five innings of shutout baseball while the other guy walks in a few runs, that doesn't mean a thing. You know why? Because baseball games get called when it's raining. It doesn't matter who does and doesn't adjust well to the weather because the weather is something that should preclude the start of the game.

by Jeff on Apr 8, 2007 8:17 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Off the top of my head
Sexson, Betancourt, Beltre, Johjima, and Ichiro were the only M's fielders to make plays. Sizemore, Marte, Garko, Martinez, Shoppach, Byrd, and Micheals made plays for the Indians.

Beltre, Betancourt and Sizemore all made mistakes while fielding. Beltre had three, and since they buggered up the play, they were errors. This means that when Beltre can't feel his hands, he doesn't do so well, I suppose. What a terrible fielder.

Personally I counted about 3 cleanly fielded ground balls (I missed the top of the first), two of them on your end, one on ours.

Groundballs + snow are harder to deal with than flyballs + snow. Cleveland hit a lot more ground balls than Seattle hit. I'm trying to make this point as simplistic as possible just to find a way to insert it into your head.

by Graham on Apr 8, 2007 8:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

selective memory
Cleveland hit a lot more ground balls than Seattle hit.

That's the only part you got right.

There were, in fact, eight successful groundout plays in four innings -- not three.

The Mariners turned five, including two groundball double-plays; the Indians turned three.

Still think it was impossible it was to field groundballs?

The real story of the actual baseball game was that the Indians piled up 14 baserunners -- including five hits and six walks -- yet only scored four runs.  They were helped by Beltre's three errors.  But Sizemore made three outs on the bases, and two more were erased on groundout double-plays.

It was, in fact, an outstanding defensive performance by the Mariners infield, including Johjima and Ramirez, and excepting only Beltre.

Facts.  They help.

by Jay on Apr 8, 2007 9:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You're missing the point.
The fact that other players besides Beltre were capable of making plays in the snow doesn't mean that Beltre should be expected to do so. Why? Because he's a baseball player, and baseball isn't played in snow. It was snowing in the top of the fifth, therefore it was the right decision to call the game.

by Rollo Tomasi on Apr 8, 2007 2:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn't say successful
I said clean. What part of 'clean' is unclear to you?

by Graham on Apr 8, 2007 4:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Haha
We give you Choo and Cabrera, the least you can do is give us a non-loss that shouldn't have happened.

by I'm NOT Corco on Apr 7, 2007 5:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

well
That is true.  We are still scratching our heads trying to figure out how that happened.  I'd have thought those moves would stand as Bavasi's trademark deals, but the Vidro trade really overshadows them completely.

by Jay on Apr 7, 2007 5:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Speaking of which
How has As-Cab worked out for you guys?  Last we heard, he was having a lot of trouble against AAA pitching.

by Gomez on Apr 7, 2007 6:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

cabrera
Personally, I'm loving Cabrera, though other fans are not as impressed.  He was promoted directly from Single-A to Triple-A not because he was ready for it -- he clearly wasn't -- but because of a crowded middle infield in the upper levels of the Mariners system.  You could argue that it was irresponsible of the Mariners to do that to him; it was clearly not the best thing for his development.

When the Indians acquired him, I did a little checking and found that he was, in fact, the youngest player in all of Triple-A last season.  In fact, there were only a dozen or so players even in Double-A who were as young as 20.  Most prospects at age 20, even elite prospects, are still in A-ball (or college).  And both scouts and stats guys will tell you, a hitter is likely to see significant jumps in performance through age 23 -- for Cabrera, that means through 2009, a long way away.

For these reasons, you have to take Cabrera's Triple-A numbers from 2006 and "translate down" at least to the Double-A level -- where you would fine that he had a decent season at the plate, still ahead of the curve at age 20.  The Indians have in fact sent him to Double-A to start this season -- a move that I believe is less of a demotoin and more of an adjustment, simply putting him where he ought to be as a 21-year-old who isn't yet an advanced hitter.  (The Indians also want demoted utility man Hector Luna to work on his defense at shortstop at Triple-A.)

Anyway.  Bottom line, Cabrera was a medicore hitter in Triple-A, arguably two levels higher than he should have been.  But he wasn't overwhelmed there, and he has lots of time and projectability.  I'm as confident that he'll be a major leaguer, and probably a starter, as I a